Wednesday, May 30, 2012

Open Forum Wednesday: The Pic Thing

In my question-and-answer series yesterday was an inquiry from a reader about how to hook up with guys online without having to provide a photograph. I spent a good deal of this weekend clearing out my pending-replies folder of my email box, and I was a little surprised to find no less than four emails—all from different people—asking pretty much the same question.

Here’s one, which I’ve gotten permission to reproduce here:
Mr. Steed, 
I am a married guy who really envies the way you go for and get sex. I have been straight for the last twenty years after some ‘experimentation’ in high school, and I think it’s time to start integrating my gay side more, or I think I’ll go completely nuts. All I think about is gay sex. It drives me kind of crazy that I can’t get any. 

I’m not a bad-looking guy, I work out three times a week and have a fit build and a good chest. My position in the community is too important to risk putting pics out there, though, and it bugs me that guys want to see pics before meeting. I’m not into pic-swapping. I want to meet. It seems like no pics is a deal-breaker for most men, though, and I can’t take that risk. 
How can I meet guys online without showing any pics? I’ve tried Craigslist, etc. 
Thanks.
Before I get to my tough love, I’d like to express sympathy to all you guys who wrote in with similar letters (and they were all very, very similar). I understand you’re in a tough place, trying to negotiate that tightrope between your current life and your own sexual desires. It’s obvious, though, that none of you are content with the way things are; if you were, you wouldn’t be hunting for sex on the side, nor would you be writing me to ask for advice.

The simple reality, however, is that there are vanishingly few people who will want to meet you without knowing what you look like. That is the immovable object against which you have to labor. I wouldn’t meet you without a photo. Nor would I meet you with an obviously out-of-date photo, a murky photo that looks like it’s been shot with a crappy cell phone cam in the dark, or a shot only of the tip of your cock. I’ve been burned too many times by guys who’ve represented themselves falsely.

If you want to meet men online, you need to have a clear shot of yourself and your face. It can be that vacation photo from earlier in the spring, or a shot you’ve taken especially for your profile or ad sitting on the stairs. But I need to see a photo so that I can make sure you don’t look like an axe murderer, a creepy playground guy, or one of those men who claims to be 46 when it looks as if you’re 70. (I’ve got nothing against 70-year-olds, mind you, but I do dislike liars.) That’s just the way it is.

Guys who talk about how they’re simply too important and high-profile to have pics absolutely baffle me. Unless your name is John Travolta or Tom Cruise, you’re simply not that special a snowflake that you can’t share your face. (And if your name is John Travolta, you’re not really doing that great a job at hiding your needs, frankly.) There are a lot of married men who share photos of their faces with other men. I’m one. There are a lot of teachers, politicians, policemen, and other high-profile career men who have photographs of themselves. If we were in the nineteen-fifties or sixties and homosexual blackmail plots were still a current literary device, I might understand. But we are well past those days.

Perhaps you might not want to share your face photo on Craigslist, where anyone can stumble across it and link to it. That’s understandable. But you can choose another online site that requires membership, like Manhunt or Adam4Adam—your wife, your minister, your parishioners are not going accidentally to stumble across them on a site like those that requires a membership or account. (If they do, they’re looking for the same thing as you, you know.) You can even place your photos under lock so that you can pick and choose who sees them, if you’re really that worried. But guys are going to want to see your photos, and you are going to have to share them at some point.

The essential crux of the dilemma with these gentlemen is that—and I don’t mean to be cruel, just honest—they want to have all the benefits of scoring online tricks, without taking any of the risks. To someone who’s never posted a photo on an online profile before, I understand that it’s a daunting prospect. In reality, though, it’s a risk so minimal that once you’ve done it, you will be totally baffled at why you thought it was at all scary. Without risk, you’re unlikely to get rewards. No guts, no glory. That’s simply the way it works.

So no, I’m afraid that I can’t offer any of these gentlemen the reassurance that there is a foolproof way to get sex online without taking the slightest risk. If these guys want to get some, they’re all going to have to give.

What do you guys think? We’ve discussed the pic thing before the past, but would you have any different advice to give? Am I being too harsh? Or is my advice pretty much on-target? Let’s hear your experiences in today’s open-forum comments.

45 comments:

  1. You are COMPLETELY on target...

    As a gay man who prefers to hook up with bi guys, this is an issue for me, and yet as a chubby gay man I struggled for a while about putting pics of myself out there...there was a lot of fear of being rejected...

    However once I took the leap and did so, I have to say pretty much all of the responses I've received have been positive...I can't help but wonder if among some of the trepidation about being recognized there might be a touch of old fashioned fear of rejection mixed in...especially for some guys who have never posted pics of themselves in a public sex forum...

    I also would like to second your recommendation of sites like Adam4Adam...there have been several instances where I have hooked up with guys through there who have shown full body pics and kept their face pvt. until they felt comfortable enough to show it to you...

    And I also would like to add my voice to the growing throng that says I won't hook up with a guy without having some clear idea of what I'm getting into...it's just too much of a crap shoot these days...:/

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    1. I'm sure the fear of rejection is part of it, if not most of it, but the weird phobia of 'being recognized' is out there too. I had a reader send in photos for my reader's assets feature once, then demand a year later they be taken down because he realized that if his mom saw the web page, she'd recognize the curtains in the background.

      Um, why is his mom going to be looking at my web page? Admittedly, I get a lot of female readers and some of them are someone's mom, but really? What are the chances?

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  2. I agree with your advice. If a guy won't show me his photos, or if he's wearing sunglasses, hat, or covering half his face with a side-shot, I'll skip him. There's plenty of guys who have clear pictures who are willing to meet up.

    If a guy uses the excuse he is too powerful to post pictures, I wouldn't enjoy being with someone with that kind of attitude anyway. Who doesn't have a good upstanding reputation in their neighborhood?

    I'm a woman who has met up with married men, and the risks they are taking of getting "caught" is just as high as anyone else's. So everyone takes a chance. But like you said, no guts no glory!

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    1. You point out something interesting I hadn't considered: these men who are 'too important' to share photos imply that the rest of us who are honest enough to do so are unimportant nobodies. How insulting is that?

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  3. Nobody wants to hook up with an outright liar. If you're too ashamed to post photos of yourself maybe you should be playing in a different medium.

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    1. It's not really even as if every guy who doesn't show a pic is a liar—but it certainly does weed out those who are.

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  4. You said it--but I'll be happy to repeat it...I HAVE to see a picture. For the gentleman in the letter--lure us in with a shot of the chest you are proud of, but have a locked face pic you only open when we are talking and things are moving in the right direction. I am open to meet so many different types of men--but the self confidence of posting those pics also helps me know what you will be like in the bed/playroom.

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    1. Exactly. Refusing even to have locked pics that one unlocks after a little conversation just indicates to me that the guy doesn't trust me (or indeed, anyone) to begin with . . . and why would I want to get together with someone like that?

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  5. I have a lot of sympathy for the guys who have written to you about their reluctance to post pictures, since I'm the same. I really don't want to take the professional risk of having a picture of me floating around the internet. What I've done vis a vis Craigslist and other meeting sites is not post a picture as part of an ad or profile, but let someone know that I'd be happy to email them a recent face pic once we've begun to talk and it's clear that we would like the discussion to go farther. Usually that does the trick in terms of establishing trust in both directions -- they appreciate the fact that I let them know quickly that I don't expect them to meet me without a pic, and I am putting my trust in them that the pic will not go beyond their email. So my policy is don't post, but willingly and quickly email.

    PJ

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    1. And that seems perfectly reasonable to me, PJ. You're managing to feel safe in an online environment, and yet still giving guys access to see what you look like in a controlled manner. I think it's a great compromise.

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    2. I second PJ's suggestion. I did that for a few years with great success when I was married. It works well on CL and I met really nice guys there.

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  6. Having been screwed over before, I'm not very likely to meet a guy with no pictures. I am, however, willing to put in the effort to establish trust enough to see them. The thing of it is, I have hooked up with higher profile members of communities who felt totally comfortable being online, but they listed themselves in a different area. For example, I hooked up with a county sheriff who would only meet guys out of his area of jurisdiction. It meant he had to drive farther for a hookup, but he was willing to sacrifice that to feel comfortable. But I have also hooked up with married guys who were members of the community and still had me park in front of the house and walk right in. Honestly, most people don't pay any attention to that sort of thing. Neighbors aren't so nosey (in general) that they want to know about every person you invite over to your house. And if most of the world knows you as straight, no one is going to think it is anything more than two guys hanging out and having a beer.

    At least that is my experience.

    -Ace

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    1. I've known guys, particularly in smaller localities, who tended to hook up either out of town, or further away from where they might have been known. I've also seen the same phenomenon with bathhouses—there were plenty of men in Detroit who wouldn't be caught dead in either of the city's baths, "in case someone saw them there" (though you'd think that those guys would be after the exact same things). But they would fuck around enthusiastically in the Chicago baths, or in Toronto or Cleveland.

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    2. I fooled around with a guy on campus who insisted we go to a small inn by the highway a few towns over so that we wouldn't be seen together. He paid, so I didn't complain. Plus he was a total pig. But I think it is a perfectly viable option for guys worried about exposure.

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  7. How funny you used the term 'axe murderer', I've used that term many times....lol

    I find it interesting that guys who post ads saying they don't have a photo to share, will only respond to replies with photos.

    One thing guys can do is post a below the neck photo and say they will exchange face photos once someone replies. Unless they have a unique tattoo or someone knows who owns that ugly sofa in the photo, they should be safe from someone stumbling upon their ad and knowing who it is.

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    1. Amusingly, I had one such contact on Squirt last weekend, who, from his pic-less, information-less profile, asked if he could see more pics and get my stats....

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    2. But even if someone does stumble on the ad and recognize the sofa or tattoo or something, what difference does it really make? The people cruising those ads are looking for exactly the same thing as the guy who placed it.

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  8. Oh this is such an interesting entry and very, very recent to my life aswell. I think this topic applies to every person out there going through online dating/hooking regardles gender or orientation.
    I've wanted for quite a long time to get to an online dating site and stalled forso long due to fear of rejection. So very important thing that is. I never one considered getting a profile without a pic though, simply because I wouldn't hook up with someone I dont know what he looks like. I mean cmon, when you're out there, on a bar, club wherever, first thing that attracts you to someone is the looks, the way they stand, walk, talk.. you get the picture. Online hooking aint very different.
    So no you're not being harsh at all here. It's just the way it is. My question though is: would these gentlemen pick someone that has no profile pic??? Would THEY risk hooking up with someone that is hiding their face??

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    1. Would they risk hooking up with someone who's hiding his face? Hell no. What they do typically is to post a murky shot (IF that) and then demand that I send even more face photos to them. That's what they do.

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  9. I started off the same way for years and ended up with nothing. Now, just ask and I will submit. I agree about rejection, but my though is that it really is their loss.
    BlkJack

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    1. I know what you look like. Who's going to reject you??

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  10. I'm not so militant about it. I am pretty careful with my pics becauwe I don't want to upset my wife. She knows I'm playing with boys, but she doesn't want her parents to know. I can think of hundreds of good reasons a person might want to be really careful with pics.

    If you're willing to bottom for me, I'm willing to take a chance, but 2 rules:
    1) You're coming to me, because I'm not making a trip for someone I haven't seen.
    2) If you've mis-represented, be prepared for me to be annoyed, and even sent packing.

    My suggestion, set up a fake facebook profile, with lots of private pics, and invite people to view it if they like, then lock them out when you're done. The worst they can do is keep local copies of the pictures, and nobody knows where they got them. If the same photos are available on your regular facebook profile it provides some deniability about the source.

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    1. But c'mon, Kevin. Are someone's wife's parents really going to be looking at Manhunt or BendOverBoy.com or whatever sites he likes?

      There are plenty of ways on these sites, and in online situations, to be pleasant and accommodating with photos while still maintaining a modicum of privacy. Being careful with pics is one thing, and it's something with which I'm entirely sympathetic (with the caveat that I know I'm not particularly careful with mine). Denying others pics altogether is entirely different.

      I like your two rules, and your Facebook strategy definitely has some merit.

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    2. I'm not remotely worried about my wife's parents finding them on their own, I'm worried about someone who has an issue with "guys that fuck around", or a co-worker, who has no idea of my arrangement with my wife, or someone I turned down last month, doing her or her family "a favour" by pointing out that I'm cheating.

      I'm not going to let such a person (more than sorrow, than in anger you understand) point them to website and say "see, here's his picture and here's what he's saying"

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    3. Oo! And why haven't I heard of BendOverBoy.com before this....

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  11. As a bi-married man who discreetly fools around with men on the side, I have success getting laid. Why? Because I share a face photo once communication has indicated that a real meet up will happen after this final hurdle has been leap over.

    I won't share a face photo with someone who's first question to me is "unlock?" I also typically won't share my face photo with someone I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell I will meet either due to distance or lack of attraction. I have met men who won't share a face photo electonically as long as they can meet in person in a public place that doesn't totally inconvenience me. I have turned men down based on these face to face's too. It's just something you have to do to get laid, bottom line.

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    1. I've know many men who want to do the public meet-up before the hook-up thing—but they were always men who had seen my photos online. The insinuation in these cases is that they find my photographs provisionally okay, but they want to make sure I'm not a fucking liar, or really ugly in person, before they take me home. I kind of find it insulting. If I show up in person and you're not into me and call it off, that's understandable. (It'd sting, but it'd be understandable.) To tell me in advance that I need to jump through additional hoops to meet, just because you're unsure whether I'm worthy of you or not, is just rude.

      In your case—from which I deviated to rant a little—I can understand meeting a guy somewhere in public if he was unwilling to, or unable to, show some photos online. That's just another level of protecting oneself.

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  12. I think a big part of it is that many of these guys feel like cruising for sex on the internet is a Big Scary Dirty Thing™ so those places are full of Scary Dirty People™ who are only out to do Scary Bad Things™. I've taken to tell people who are ultra-uptight about sending pix that I'm not online to humiliate them and ruin their life; I'm there to get my fucking rocks off. And so is everyone else. NO ONE is there harvesting your pix to upload to Huffington Post with the caption "THIS MAN ASKED TO SUCK MY DICK." Just have a stupid picture of yourself that looks like you but is uninteresting enough that people aren't going to put it on their sexy tumblr. You'll be fine.

    That said, an awful lot of guys who I've ejaculated in have been showing up on sexy tumblrs lately. Hm.

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    1. I like your trademarks! I hope that my indulgence in every single one of them has brought you in all kind of intellectual property royalties!

      I show up on sexy tumblrs sometimes. I like when I do. How come it doesn't happen more often?

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    2. You need to send more of us pictures. You can be on my tumblr any time....

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  13. I wouldn't be surprised if there were churches with nut cases as pastor (hello North Carolina) who have the 'flock' checking out porn sites looking for local town folk/famous people/etc just so they can out them to the public. Or 'spying' out front adult stores keeping track of who goes in and out.

    So I can understand people being careful, but they should keep in mind they will have a harder time of it.

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    1. As a North Carolinian, I'd like to be offended by your shout-out. I'd like to...I'd really like to...but...y'know...unfortunately I can't be. Another cringe in and for the Good Ol' North State.

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    2. Is _that_ why my tumblr gets so many hits from North Carolina?

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  14. I really do not see what the issue is of having a face picture online. I mean, with there being so many ways we can put our images out there, Facebook etc. If someone ever asked me about seeing my picture online, I'd say 'oh someone must have lifted it from my Facebook page'. I think these guys need to be more inventive, because, we all know that they are experts at (when the wife doesn't know) being deceptive:) So they need, as others have said, to get some balls. It's not like anyone is saying 'show me a full frontal naked picture with you standing erect to attention', just a face picture will do. Although one of those picture (naked with face and erect dick) does sort the men from the boys:)

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    1. I don't have a full frontal naked picture with me standing...oh wait, yes I do.

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    2. See? Now why isn't _that_ on my tumblr?

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    3. Breeder, I'd love to see that one:) And I would never put that up on Tumblr, I'd have/wear it in a locket around me neck:)

      And to touch on that subject, why do people feel the need to put other peoples (as in not porn stars) pics up on tumblr, or whatever page. I just don't get it?!?

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    4. I think you're presuming something about Tumblr. Tumblr suffers from being a confusing hybrid. It is really a blogging site, which means that many of us use it for keeping a journal similar to this one, but it's heavy focus on pictures has resulted in heavy uptake by people interested in porn. If someone puts a "this is the hot guy that did me Saturday night" post up, and a bunch of his followers are heavy porn traders, the pic is going to go wild.

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  15. I think A Vow From The Seeker hit the nail on the head: "...maybe you should be playing in a different medium." Pics are the lingua franca of online hookups. I'm not unsympathetic to your pillar-of-society correspondent or other closeted (for whatever reason) horndogs, but they simply need to get their kicks elsewhere. Like adult bookstores or the steamroom at the gym—and I'm always happy to see the glint of their wedding rings in both.

    Your writer is just making it harder on himself and (probably) pissing off most potential playmates along the way with his refusal to share photos; his circumstances do not facilitate online hook-ups. He asked: "How can I meet guys online without showing any pics?" The short answer is: He can't. (And given his concerns over his position, I'd wonder how he could trust anyone he hasn't seen enough to meet them—assuming he doesn't require photos in advance. That is probably a greater risk.)

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    1. Throb, you have a good point. There are other venues to venture when one doesn't want to share photos online. Bookstores, gym steamrooms, parks, restrooms. Personally, I would find the public cruising more intimidating than merely sharing a photo online, but everyone's mileage varies, I guess.

      I think people see online cruising as the easiest of all the ways to hook up—and maybe it is. You don't have to wear a nice outfit. You can do it before you've brushed your teeth and groomed in the morning. You don't have to leave the house, or smell nice. But just because it's convenient doesn't mean that it can be done without compromising, or giving a little in order to get some.

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  16. prima facie means face the world....in italian

    as such my @webcamsocial tweets, if I say, lead me to and fro folk wanting advice on what, where online and how much to show via live webcam stream ala cam4.com same but different light...u see?

    also great locale based sharing apps like scruff where u choose a face or torso pic with some upper body neck and head..allow users in one-to-one chat modules..privately and discreetly share as explicit ur desire with no web storage publicly..u can clear conversatiin and photo contribution anytime.

    Finally I suggest ponder the inspiration of billions of tiny public available userpics..men holding outstretched arm tightly gripped smartphone or cell cam aimed in mirror quickly grabbing time alone inside homes bathroom, motel or public restroom vs. studio nudes....then visit the blog linked to my name..see what art can do or undo in hands of cybersex blogger...me..and I am a color shape and design degree...its lots of twisted android userpic art from my imagination to loosen us up PRIMA FACIE

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  17. Damn... I thought there would be pics.

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  18. I used to tromp around at the Country Bookstore in Waverly VA with a past friend of mine. I was married, he was gay, yet he was totally in the closet (at least so he thought). I remember one time that he saw another guy (gay dude) there from his subdivision and freaked out and we both had to cut our fun short so he could sneak out and get away from this other guy who was obviously there for the same reason we were. It kills me that the appearances people try to keep are already most likely seen right through anyhow.

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  19. Hi Rob,
    Been a while since i've been in here, soory about that my friend but i'm back. You hit right on the money with that one sexy man.
    Love your post because it happen to me also, not in real life but on cam. The guy told me he was young, built and all the package but no pic so i said ok. When i open the cam it was all the opposite so i told him in a good manner, no thank you you are not my type. It happen to me three times over all and now i don't open it. Some of them have pic but not of themself. There are some link in here also but i never apply to any of them. Maybe one day i will before getting to old for that. Thank you for being there all the time, take care my dear friend.

    Yves

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  20. To point out the obvious... Don't show your face in any body pictures. Cut the heads right out or use software to obscure your features. And send face pics that are G rated. I NEVER send hardcore pictures with my face in them. Then they can't get out onto the internet.

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