Friday, November 18, 2011

Open Forum Friday: Cleaning Out

I'm going to name-drop, here. Bear with me. It'll pass quickly, and then we'll get to the topic for our open forum.

Yesterday I was on the phone with my friend, porn actor Jayson Park. I've plugged his thoughtful and well-written blog before, and I'll encourage you all to go and vote for him as Best Porn Star in the Cybersocket Surfer's Choice Awards. (If I'm not getting nominated for Best Sex Blog, it'd be nice to have one of Breeder's Readers win something, right?) Anyway. He and I were chatting about various things, and we happened on the subject of cleanliness and anal sex.

"I don't like making big sweeping generalizations about groups of people," he said to me. "Especially tops. But it always seems to me like tops don't have to do as much to prepare for a fuck. Not compared to us bottoms."

"No," I assured him. "You're totally right. I figure if my teeth are brushed and my breath smells nice, the rest of me doesn't stink, all I need to do is rinse off my dick and I'm good to go."

Which is not to say, by the way, that tops aren't without responsibilities and pressures of our own. We have to keep our dicks rigid for the duration, for example—something a bottom doesn't have to worry about. We're expected to know how to handle a bottom guy, which can be off-putting for guys wanting to top but don't have much experience. From some bottoms, we're under pressure to say the right things, hit the right buttons, follow every cue. But cleanliness isn't generally near the top of anyone's list of the tough things about topping.

I expressed to Jayson something that really doesn't get said enough, not by me, not by many tops in general. I truly do recognize and appreciate all the extra effort a bottom goes through in order to prepare for a fuck. The effort the good and thoughtful ones take, anyway.

We've discussed in this blog and in my comments before how the spread of easily-available pornography may have prompted the current taste for squeaky-clean assholes during fucking. Enemas and comprehensive douching certainly weren't the norm when I started having sex in the nineteen-seventies, at least not in the backwater town where I was growing up. I was lucky to have one of those holes that wasn't particularly dirty under most circumstances; the most I had to do in order to prepare for marathon fucks was hop in the shower, soap up the outside of the hole, and maybe insert a wet finger a couple of inches in and wiggle it around a bit. Maybe.

And of course these days, men go to much greater lengths to clean out before a fuck. They buy enema bulbs and install nozzles onto their showers. They go through cleansing rituals that can last for an hour or more. I've been through them myself, from time to time. Oddly, though I never seem to mind the noises and the smells when they're coming from someone else, when I've had to do it, I've found it embarrassing. It's a mortification of the flesh, essentially, and while it's happening I'm usually shuddering and pulling faces and wishing that I was anywhere but in that shower, or on that john, or bent over with my belly full and aching and with water shooting out of my backside.

No, there aren't any pics. Pervs.

So bottoms of the world, trust me. When I say I appreciate what you go through to clean up for me, I mean it. It's the reason I show up when we've made a date in advance, because I know you've built the time to clean out into that day's schedule. It's why I understand and accommodate when you need me to come over in ninety minutes, rather than the fifteen it would actually take me to get there. It's why I understand your massive frustration when you've made a date with another top and he's stood you up—it's not just because you need the dick in your hole, but also because you've made a pretty significant investment of time, effort, and a measure of personal humiliation, even before you found out he wouldn't be coming.

It's why, when I'm presented with a fresh-smelling and soapy ass, I really like to show my appreciation. It's why I love to rim and bite and get in there and make the hole sing before I lube up and thrust my meat deep inside you. You guys flatter me when you take the time and effort to clean up for me like that. I don't take it for granted. I want you to realize that, every time we meet.

I'm curious about the attitudes of others, though. Bottom men—is cleaning embarrassing and unpleasant for you, or is it a no-big-deal kind of thing? Do you find that most tops take your efforts for granted, and if so, how do you feel about it? Or don't you clean out at all?

And tops, how about you guys? Do you think about how clean the bottoms are when you're in them, and the steps they've taken to get that way? Or is cleanliness not quite the issue for you as it is for them?

I'm willing to bet there's a lot about the other side that both perspectives take for granted. It never hurts to open our eyes and think about things, right?


  1. I've never bottomed and I rarely don't top. Anyone who reads my blog knows I'm all about getting head.

    However, once in a while, I get the urge.

    I'm glad you touched on this subject Rob, because as an infrequent flyer to the anal sex arena, nothing is a bigger turn off than "unclean" butt holes.

    I'm cool with an accident. Hey, we're all human, and we don't have complete control over our bodies, but if you want to bottom, do what you can with what you CAN control.

    Read, research, then take the time and effort necessary to present a clean pucker.

  2. Jack,

    I'll put you down as 'expecting tidiness,' then.

    It's a good point, that cleaning out is about doing what one can with what one can control. A very good point indeed!

  3. The last time I did a full clean out was for you, so I'm going to take part in that compliment you've made. I'm the kind of guy where, if I'm doing something, I'm going to do my best to make it perfect. Even as a top I usually do a surface and shallow clean just so that everything looks and tastes nice for my partner.

    I don't, however, expect perfection from my bottoms. As long as I'm not COVERED (which has happened) a little mess isn't so bad. I do know bottoms who flip if there's even a speck though.

    I never feel gross when cleaning out. I focus more on the happiness of the guy and how he will like filling up my empty hole. I also, generally, do it when I'm alone, and my sounds don't bother me so much. It is if I am seen bent over with my ass up that I'm embarrassed. I've never had someone watch me do it, but I might let them if I felt comfortable with them. Not a stranger, though.


  4. As a pushy bottom who loves to rim I would say that a clean outside is the ideal situation for me. The other night I spent about 2 hours rimming this luscious hole that was very, very clean - heaven on earth. As a bottom I'm always concerned about being clean inside. Due to my weight and physical difficulties I do what I can for my top. Sometimes I tell them that they find shit on their dick and usually they say they can deal with that with soap and water afterwards. I always let them know though so there is no surprise or indignation on their part. Good post Rob and Explorer Jack thanks for your kind words about those of us with limitations. Rob, would you please post EJ's link (if available) as well as Jayson Park's. As a p.s. -- you, Rob, and Ace as well as Jim in NY asses are my three top asses to rim. You all provide good fantasies for me to jerk off to. sammybear

  5. I'm vers and I ALWAYS prep for a fuck, even if I think I will only be topping. It's completely a no-big-deal thing for me and I got over the "gross" factor of it long ago.

  6. For me I love to present a deeply cleaned hole for my top to enjoy and seed. I don't mind cleaning out, it's not embarrassing, but what is embarrassing for me, is a "smell". I don't like it and I'm sure the top doesn't either. The problem with being squeaky clean is that it prevents spontaneous sex. I can't be clean 24/7, and I would love to just walk into a bathroom and get fucked.... but I even I don't want to for fear of "I didn't clean" and some brown stuff will be on the shaft of the top and there might be a smell. I would like to have that spontaneous sex, but all my encounters need to be planned (in my mind). And in a relationship that could ruin the moment if I stop him and go clean.......

  7. Ace,

    I'm not likely to get horribly offended by a tiny bit of uncleanliness. Some bottoms do expect perfection of themselves, and I always like to make sure I show them how thankful I am when they give it to me.

  8. Sammybear,

    Jayson's blog is linked in the post. And thanks!!

  9. Lucky,

    Even as a total top I prep to a certain extent, in case the situation involves me getting rimmed.

    Sadly, that doesn't happen often enough. Or for long enough.

  10. Mark,

    I admit that the smell gets me more than the sight of a fleck or two. I risk triggering my bipolar commenter by talking about it (he's obsessed with the topic), but a foul smell will completely put me off my game.

  11. I admit that I do expect a bottom to be as clean as possible. While I don't need (or necessarily enjoy) a soapy tasting ass, I do like the worry free feeling of knowing my bottom is prepared. When I'm topping now, I guess I don't think too much about how clean my boyfriend is, since I know he will be completely fresh and clean all the time. Also, I guess it has to do with when I bottom. When I'm cleaning out, it's not exactly fun, but it's not too big a deal either. I guess that's why I just assume that it's not a big deal for him either. A funny fact is that I also clean out even if I'm plan on topping, just like Lucky from the last comment, for me because I like to be prepared and flexible in case my boyfriend isn't going to bottom for whatever reason.

  12. I don't mind a little dirt, but like I said, if I pull out and it just pours out, then we have a problem. I am one of those perfectionists, though, when I bottom. I didn't used to be (when I was a kid, I never cleaned out) but there was a guy I bottomed for my freshman year who hammered it into me, and now I just do it to be polite and give the tops pleasure.


  13. I like to rim, so clean is essential. That said, I like a little flavour and scent, so some sweat on top of clean is the epitome for me. We're human, so I don't expect sterile. If my bottom has made an effort to be clean, I'll make an effort not to be offended by imperfection.

    It's kind of funny, it brings to mind my thoughts about people's preoccupation with sterilizing themselves after going to the bathroom. Each time I hear someone complain about a lack of hand-washing, I think "If only you knew where my mouth was last XXXXXX, you'd probably shut-up about about hand-washing and run screaming for the hills.

  14. I have reached the point where I never assume a clean out is a matter of course with guys I've never met. I try to mention it in preliminary emails. Guys need to know that I can go past the second ring...and since my entire fuck MO is all about rim, fuck, rim, fuck, rim, is better said. I deal with small accidents all the time with, I hope, humor and grace. And I DO thank them for the extra time--verbally and with them being on the rim seat longer than they ever imagined...

  15. Dang, Handsome! Of all the enlightening, illuminating topix we lit upon you pick the one to post about to your readers that is the most wince-inducing for me. At least to my overly "bottom"-focused self! Why? Because not only do I find prepping to be a literal "pain in the ass" but a constant source of insecure feelings and of threatening em-bare-ass-ing moments. For some, all it takes is one bad pull-out (for me, once, decades ago) to make ya say to yourself: With God as my witness, I shall always go sh*tless again!

    Mind you, there's no absolute way for a bottom to be sure - unless you refrain from eating days in advance and/or have internal cycling systems as perfectly timed as Greenwich Mean - so ya just have to be "okay" about it when some "sh*t" happens. Also, most tops give me a sense that THEY'D be okay if "it" were to happen, too. But that's like hearing a jockish Dad tell his jock son it's all right if he didn't make varsity; you'd still always rather make yourself to him a source of great pride and not even the slightest shame, yes?

    Anyway, I also feel it's a big deal because it's expected of me to think and do so! (Cums with the territory, I guess, of being a working power bottom!) Meanwhile I don't think tops take it all for granted, but I dunno if they know the half of it - or of the cum-ulative weeks/months of time all us bottoms have had to set aside just to ready ourselves. (Imagine the worlds I coulda conquered!)

    On the "other" side of it, I don't ever take for granted a top - or his cock or his cum. To me, it's an honor "granted" me when he fucks and breeds my hairy raw hole! But I do sorta begrudge him that his only hygienic preparedness amounts to not much more than a handy wipe around his crotch and haunches!

    As if that could only be my routine! No wait, if it were I'd be on my back or all fours 24/7. So apparently not being ready so easily is the reason I'm able to get other things done!

    p.s. The "plug" was great, now gimme one in real time!

  16. Put me in the squeamish, paranoid clean category.

    I've bottomed more than topped. I don't find cleaning embarrassing or a chore. It takes time sure, and I'd probably get laid a lot more often (than my average few times a year) if I waited to go online until after I had cleaned. Then again, why go through the hassle unless you're sure of a reward?

    I'd be much more embarassed by even the slightest amount of shit. I'm in my 50s and since I've had my gall-bladder out, there's just more uncertainty.

    Somewhat like Mark, I wonder what it would be like to walk into a restroom and find spontaneous sex. The cleanliness issue is one mental block (there are others). I can't imagine rimming under such circumstances. In fact, rimming is something I've rarely done.

  17. I'm 100% a bottom. I ALWAYS clean out thoroughly. And the reason for that is that I want to encourage my top to pound away at my hole for as long as he possibly can without any interruptions or distractions.

    When I'm sucking or rimming and licking on his cracks and crevices I want him to have a taste and a scent. Not the taste or scent of shit - but the taste and scent of musk, sweat and.....well, of a man! I used to trick with a guy who went for a run before we played because he knew I'd spend forever feasting on his cock, his nuts, his taint and his ass before he's fold me in half and bury his cock in me. The smell and taste got me SO horned up!

  18. I expect a sexual partner to be clean whether they top or bottom. But as a top I am very appreciative of the time and effort it takes a bottom to clean themselves. I have been in several encounters where "shit has happened" and I always use humor to try and make him easy aand relax , give him time to clean up and regroup. Since I really enjoy rimming and rimming deep. I want to be assured he is as clean as he can be. Since I am also into workout sex I realize the limitations that poses to a bottom, so sometimes we forgo fucking. Great post.

  19. It really all depends on who I'm playing with.
    As a top I, like Feltching Pisser, enjoy the freedom of being able to fuck-rim-fuck...but even if that doesn't happen it's not that big of a deal and I take a feather from Ace's cap: as long a I'm not COVERED, there's always soap and water. :)

    If I know ahead of time I'm going to be playing with a top or vers guy I try to plan in the time to do a clean out before I jump in the shower, which usually doesn't take more than an hour, combined.

    Then there's sex with my boyfriend, who tends to get VERY aggressive in his fucking of me most if the time. (Don't worry. I give it back to him just as hard! HaHa) Though I do make an attempt to clean out when I knows he's coming over and have the time, neither one of us is really concerned about it and I think that's just one of those things.

    Anyway. Just my thoughts. For what they're worth.


  20. I'll never forget the time I was asked to top unexpectedly as the guy had stated that we were hooking up so he could suck me off. When he asked if I would f##k him I agreed. I SHOULD have asked if he had cleaned at all. Silly me. I pulled out and was so glad I'd used a condom because it was totally brown when I pulled out. I can put up with an accident but that was downright rude.

  21. As a bottom, preparing to be topped is a routine part of getting ready for a date. I like to be always ready even if the days events weren't planned for an eventual fucking. I'm masculine and like to smell like Irish Spring soap. Makes me feel clean and like my tops to smell good too. No big dirty studs for me. hal

  22. I'm writing this comment from the Steamworks here in Toronto, where the first thing I did after I paid my fee and stowed everything in the locker was to clean out.

    I'm functionally versatile--traditionally top, experimenting more with bottoming--and, I suppose, I find it a bit embarrassing not to be fairly clean either way. I use condoms for anal sex, topping and bottoming, so it's more aesthetics than hygiene for me.

    Do I mind cleaning out myself? Actually, I think it's kind of fun, potentially even erotic. Cleaning myself out at one of Steamworks' douche stations can be pretty hot, and has actually led to a bit of self-fisting before I go out and do (or get done) whoever. Maybe it's purely psychological, but I find I'm a more drable bottom post-cleaning than without.

  23. This post and especially the many comments were immensely interesting for me.

    The hygiene issue is one of the things I like about gay men, I guess. It's a bit of a cliche, so apologies for that, but most gay men look after themselves a bit better than heterosexual men.

    What I found very interesting is that so many of you are concerned about anal hygiene, especially the bottoms, so that anal penetration is almost never an instantaneous thing to occur.

    The problem with rimming is that often (with very young and heterosexual men) it can't be announced. Or at least I rarely mustered the courage to say: "I am going to rim you, are you clean?" because the answer would have mostly been: "Don't go there! I'm not gay!" (rolls eyes) ...

  24. Ethan,

    A couple of things. I also clean my ass to a certain extent when I go to an encounter. Definitely the outside and a little bit in, in case there's rimming. (Which, sadly, there too often is.) But sometimes I'll pull out the enema bulb and clean further in, just in case there's a finger or something else that slips in.

    That doesn't happen too often, either.

    The other thing is that your attitude mirrors mine and the attitude of many versatile guys I know—they tend to clean themselves out for fear of offending the top, though when it comes to topping themselves, their attitude toward cleanliness tends to be more of a laissez faire thing.

  25. Kevin Shea,

    In defense of those of us who are OCD about hand-washing, particularly during respiratory illness months, chances are pretty good that in an everyday situation, your mouth isn't going anywhere near anything I might touch and accidentally transmit a cold virus to myself. (Or whatever you picked up while rimming, ya dawg.) Your hands, though. . . .

  26. FelchingPisser,

    I still have visions of that one very unfortunate accident you had with one of your tricks, whenever I talk about cleaning out. I don't blame you for specifying what you expect, after that nightmare.

    Must go sterilize my tongue, now.

  27. Jayson,

    Sheesh, buddy, it's not like I was implying that all we do when we talk on the phone is literally shoot the shit!

    But yeah, all that cleaning does add up in terms of time. And it's not like you can take your iPad into the shower while you're doing it, either. I just wanted to let you know—and then to take it to my readers so they could discuss it—that there's at least one top out here who recognizes the effort and thanks you bottoms for it.

  28. Scotrock,

    I can't remember a time when I rimmed in a restroom encounter. It probably happened with me on the receiving end at one time or another, but it's not something I'm going to do with a stranger in a public restroom. (I'll fuck though. But I don't have to taste my dick after!)

    I do not blame you in the least for not cleaning until you've gotten a hookup arranged. I'd be a frustrated guy to go through that chore (you might not think it is, but I do) and get no reward for it.

  29. Cali-P,

    Um, what's your phone number? You're my kind of bottom.

  30. Loki,

    I'm glad you're gracious enough to use humor and to let the guy regroup. That shows character in trying circumstances.

  31. VersBareCub,

    I too am a fan of the fuck-rim-fuck. And also of the fuck-get cleaned-fuck. Good internal hygiene encourages both!

  32. 2:03 Anonymous,

    And that happened to you only once? Consider yourself lucky! It's happened to me countless times and you'd think I'd be smart enough to learn a lesson from it--but in the heat of the moment when I'm hard and ready to go, I think with the little head first.

  33. Hal,

    Irish Spring? And I like it, too!

  34. 9:52 Anonymous,

    Loved your points. But mostly I'm feeling oddly giddy and pleased at the notion that you're reading my blog and responding to it from the middle of the best bathhouse in Toronto.

    That loyal readers, is true reader devotion.

  35. Countess,

    It's interesting you bring up that point. I had a straight couple with whom I was friends back in Michigan, the wife of which would confide to me all kinds of sexual things about her husband. (He didn't really mind.) But one of them touched on what you mentioned—she couldn't announce that she was going to rim him.

    If she was down there going about her oral business and his legs happened to part and her tongue hit the right spot and it turned into rimming, great. If she announced she was going to do it, though, he would freak out, snap shut his legs, and say that was too gay for him.

    Of course, I don't know whether she was announcing it like, "Sweetheart, may I tongue your anus?" or "Turn over, bitch, and let me lick that hairy hole." It could've been the club she chose rather than the fact she wan't to hit that particular ball, badly to employ a golf metaphor.

  36. Mr. Breeder,

    I think I used a wide variation of clubs but then again, I just might be lousy golfer. (Metaphor aside: I am. I drove my usually zen-like golf instructor into fits of homicidal rage.)

    There are some terms that have a higher chance of success:

    "Can I suck you down there?"

    for example. As ridiculous as it sounds: One has to avoid the "R" and the "A" words. "Suck" on the other hand sounds properly "straight" and is therefore acceptable.

    Sadly, a many heterosexual beaus are out of the door before you even finished saying "Turn around ..."

  37. I've been meaning to blog about this topic as I have already blogged about it YEARS ago but a lot has changed since them.

    I am a naturally born bottom and I have spent countless hours cleaning myself. Part of it is my own OCD issues mixed with a fair amount of common courtesy. I do get embarrassed by the whole process as for me it can be a little bit emasculating. If someone is in the next room I always come out of the bathroom with a shy joke about what was going on in there.

    The most difficult things about cleanliness are the spontaneity and when you are in a relationship. I was ALWAYS (yes, always) prepared for fucking with my ex not only because he was a 200% top and I was an insatiable bottom, but I don't really need a lot of foreplay and I think there is no hotter sex than when you just "stick it in".

    My ex was very butch and was very blue collar and I would refuse to let him shower when he got home although sometimes it was nice when he was completely clean.

    These days I am much more versatile and I live in Berlin, the sleaziest city in the world. It is not particularly healthy, but I go through great lengths to be prepared most times from dieting to enemas. Though the physical reaction is a compliment, it is nice to see some verbal acknowledgement for the trouble we go through.

    Thank you.

  38. Sweet Tooth,

    Thanks for that thoughtful response! I know that the thanks for cleaning is something that doesn't get said often enough, or in official-enough capacities. I appreciated reading your considered comments about your own perspective.

  39. Rob,

    Work has kept me busy so I am just now catching up on my blog reading that I usually do during my quiet shifts.

    When I started having sex I didn't know about cleaning out and never had any issues until I got older. As I got older and grew more informed about hygiene and become the cum dump slutty pig that I am the more concern I have gotten if I am clean or not. I find it embarrassing and not pleasant to do. When I think I am properly cleaned I fuck myself with a dildo to check for cleanliness.

    But for some reason the stimulation lately of the water flowing in has started to make me hornier for cock and cum (already am if I am preparing). I am thinking the reason for this came from having some guys piss in me and then fuck me. Most amazing feeling to have a guy piss in your ass.

    I get embarrassed if I am not spotless when I think I was when I am done cleaning. The tops have been cool and very comforting even though I want to go hide. I have had tops tell me I am immaculate and that is what I like to hear especially if I am going to collect loads from several guys.

    Thank you for your words on the topic. I appreciate it as a bottom.

  40. Rob, I promised myself that I would stop commenting on these older blogs because you don't reply to them here, and I can email You just as easily. That being said, Thank You for such a thoughtful and thought-provoking blog. I admit I am in the all-tops-have-to-do-is-show-up camp and have resented the time invested in a good douche only to come home barren of cum. It took only one very nasty the Eagle of all places..for Me to realize I have to really clean out well! I love to eat ass, but a nasty parasite and a round of Cipro turned me off of it for awhile. I am back at it with a vengeance, but I have found too many tops who don't do just a basic wash up, so it's a treat to find a rimable hole. I very much appreciate You and Your thanks to us bottoms (we bottoms?) who take the needed time to prep. You are a Top's Top Sir!