Friday, February 18, 2011

Open Forum Friday: The Age Thing

I’ve seen them online as long as there’s been an online to cruise—those guys with handles like lookin4yung or boilovindaddy. You have, too. You know exactly what those profiles are going to say even before they read them. Successful older gentleman looking for younger companionship. My birth certificate might say I’m a certain age, but I sure don’t feel it! YOU: Should be under 25, slim/swimmer’s build to muscular, no overweight. VGL only.

And of course, they’re accompanied by a photo of a gray-haired chubby guy with unkempt facial hair, and bad teeth. In his pill-covered cardigan, he’s got an appearance roughly as stimulating as that creepy elderly uncle of yours who drinks too much at family holiday gatherings and farts secretly into the den sofa.

I look at these profiles and think to myself: Sad. Ever since I’ve been in my twenties myself, I’ve always told myself I wouldn’t be one of those men. I didn’t think there was ever a chance of it happening, for one thing. When I started having sex, all the guys were older than me. (When you’re thirteen, everyone’s older than you.) In my college and grad school days, I was every sugar daddy’s boy. In my mid-twenties I was still chasing after men in their forties and fifties. It wasn’t until my mid-twenties that I really even chose to have sex with other guys my age—and frankly, they never scored that well on my post-coital report cards.

The moment I turned thirty, something curious happened. I became invisible to a vast percentage of the gay population. Older guys who liked getting banged by young stuff overlooked me when that first digit changed from a 2 to a 3. And younger guys didn’t even seem to see me. I remember on several occasions accompanying grad students in my department at the time out to a club or bar, and noticing that when their peers would come over to chat and introduce themselves, they’d shake hands and introduce themselves to all the other twenty-odd-year-olds, and completely skip over me. It didn’t even seem a deliberate omission; it really was as if I was invisible, a ghost, a phantom occupying no space, over whom their eyes could glide without notice.

At the time, it was a bit of a shocker. I thought to myself that if I’d ever wanted to make it with younger guys, well, that time had passed.

And then I hit my forties.

There’s something about a man of moderate good looks in his forties that has proven to be irresistible to a lot of guys in their late teens and early twenties. I honestly can’t explain it. One of my favorite young correspondents recently commented that he was in a ‘daddy phase’—and maybe that’s simply what it is. I’m not going to question the phenomenon. I’m just going to revel in it.

The problem is that I when I think about how many pretty young things who’ve slipped between my sheets since I turned forty, I think I might as well stop trimming my nose hairs and get out that pill-covered cardigan. Because I suddenly feel like that guy. You know. The creepy one. I feel like I should be assuring people reading my profile that I don’t look forty-seven, and that what is age but a number, anyway?

Look at the facts. A boy half my age has been occupying most of my time of late; he sleeps over half the time. Scruffy was even younger. Most of the guys with whom I hook up online are under the age of twenty-one. If I strip down and show off on a web cam, most of the guys cheering me weren’t even born when Marisa Tomei won the Academy Award.

The only saving grace, I think—and trust me, I cling to it—is that I’ve never been one of those you must be 25 or under! chappies. I take ‘em as they come, pretty much, and still like a variety in my sexual diet. Older men I find very attractive. Younger guys (and when you’re forty-seven, everyone’s younger than you) I also enjoy meeting. I have great encounters with men around my own age, for the first time in my life. It’s not that I can’t afford to be picky. I’ve just learned that discrimination based on specious criteria is silly.

Secretly, though, when I go out at night with Spencer to a restaurant where other gay couples are eating, I see them look at us and size us up. And though on a certain level I think they’re admiring Spencer and then regarding me with envy and thinking, Lucky dog, part of me worries if mentally they’re consigning me to that corner of the sofa with the creepy, farting uncle who paws the boys and is a general embarrassment to all.

So in this edition of the open forum, I ask my readers: what’s your opinion on the issue of age difference? Do younger men have a daddy phase? Are older guys automatically creepy because they have a parade of younger studs in their bedroom? Or in these free-for-all days, am I being super-sensitive about it?

I’m honestly curious to hear your opinions.

62 comments:

  1. I think "older" men are only creepy when they don't have fun with young guys for the sake of having fun (is when there's an exchange of money for "time".) I am personally attracted to "older" guys quite often and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I'm not sure I believe in a "daddy phase," but I think that attraction can lie between two people, regardless of age.

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  2. Lucky,

    I agree. When the goal is something other than mutual fun, it's a little off-putting to me. If the older man is seeking younger guys for validation, or to prove to himself that he's not aging, or just to look good when he steps out, it's a little creepy to me.

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  3. When I was 21, I was working-out six days a week, and was a six-foot-five Top with a big dick. I had no use for the guys my own age, because I wanted to learn how to be a self-assured, happy gay man in a world that was hostile to me. The older guys really dug getting fucked by somebody like me, and I learned a LOT from them in every aspect of being a great gay male.
    Now, I'm 55, and if anything, I'm more popular now than I ever was back then, and it's the young guys who are all over me. I can't last for hours sexually the way that I used to, but that's not the attraction. These men are attracted to my willingness to mentor, to encourage, and to share whatever I know with them. This has been a tradition for all human history - Young gay men need Daddies, and Daddies have something wonderful to share. I don't use 'em once and throw them away - I build long-lasting friendships and invest in them personally. Maybe that's the difference between my philosophy and yours - You seem unable to slow down and spend time with a FEW guys, long-term. It's not a bad thing, it's just different. Quality versus quantity.

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  4. Hi Rob
    I too remember the invisibility of my 30's. The limbo in gay life of not being young enough or old enough. I also have never had a type of person I was attracted to. I find many men of all ages and looks are appealing. My 40's have opened a door of filling all these attractions. I am an attractive, well kept man who some would say does not look his age. I do not try to be younger than I am, I just want to be comfortable in my skin. I also will admit that I too wrestled with that feeling of being the creepy old man. We have all seen them. I also do not miss out on the plethora of opportunities to indulge while we can. I really try not to judge or live by others perceptions. I believe that if we treat people with respect and do not take advantage of vulnerabilities, I will never be that dirty old man. We cannot control others desires, but we can ensure that both parties are in agreement of where things are going.
    Once again, a topic that hit home.

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  5. Anonymous,

    You're talking to a guy who's spent the last three months writing about--and until the last week limiting his sexual relations with--solely one young man.

    You're also talking to a guy who has written several times about men with whom I have very long-term relationships of many months, and sometime years. I'm talking about ten or twelve years or more. Those relationships might be casually sexual in nature, but they are based in friendship and long-term camaraderie.

    And I haven't even mentioned my primary relationship of more than two decades.

    If my tone is hostile, it's because of your poor choice of wording. To say that I am unable to spend time with a few guys in the long term is not only uncharitable, it's false, and can easily be countered by the entries I've made over the last three months alone. It's also an indication that you haven't read into my back entries either very deeply, or very well.

    I'm also not happy with your implication that I choose quantity over quality. I think many of my readers will back me up when I say that I can have, and have had, both.

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  6. Vancouver Steve,

    Thanks for sharing that, because your experiences seem to parallel my own (and it's always nice to know you're not alone in these things!). And you're right. We should be taking advantage of opportunities as we have them, because life is too fleeting and our time here is too short.

    I wish that everyone had your openness and willingness not to judge and to treat others with respect; it seems as if so many guys seem determined to get ahead by putting others down.

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  7. When I was in my teens and 20's I never went through a Daddy phase, tending instead to hooking up with guys 'around my own age' (as one sees it in profiles). Looking back at it all, as I got older it did seem like I attracted somewhat younger guys, who were looking for a man with more experience of various kinds. In retrospect I think I was *way* too judgmental about older men, and was too easily put off by a few unfortunate encounters that went too far into creepy/needy territory.

    Since returning to a sexual life a few years ago - bypassing my '40s entirely - I have been quite surprised by the pups (and dogs) drawn to me. I no longer have age restrictions in mind when I approach/am approached by a guy. I hope I'll have the presence of mind to retire into my cave forever if I start getting all creepy uncle -- and that if I've lost that presence of mind, that I'll have a friend or two to point it out.

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  8. Rob
    As you know I am a guy that was openly gay/bi before marriage in my 20's and 30's, and now in my late 50's. Even by the time I turned 30 I was finding younger men drawn to me, although a wonderful man in his late 40's took me as his lover for a year. Now due to living in a college town the opportunities are mostly guys under 25 on the Internet..too young from a life experience for a long term relationship but occasionally wonderful for great sex. The men I have met and want to repeat with are all in their late 30's to early 40's and we connect so much more deeply and have passionate sex. I really would love to find a guy closer to my age, but have to say so many guys have let their bodies go. I am lucky genetically so am slim and look younger than my age, but have that gray hair that creeps some guys out. Yet others are totally drawn to me and want a more mature, sophisticated, seasoned man.

    Your reflection on this is really helpful and does touch a reality, which has its parallels in the straight world where older men seem to be very attractive to some younger women.

    And I know as you age further the patterns may change in who you attract and are attracted to, and then fate will also bring you wonderful men that defy categories.

    Thanks for the thoughtful post, and enjoy that great guy Spencer who has so clearly fulfilled you in such a mutual way.

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  9. I misspoke earlier, and you're right - My comments aren't aimed at you, personally, at all. I apologize, and I see why you would have an "ow!" reaction. It was thoughtless of me, and yes, I do recall those things about you now that I've woken up more.

    I guess that I was speaking to so many OTHER blogs that I subscribe to on their Atom feeds, and the endless facelessness that they glorify. I can't relate to any of it. I've always been the type to bond easily, and I wonder about the guys who clearly can't bond at all. I wonder sometimes if they're simply sociopaths on some level.

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  10. You might've titled this entry "Wha'd'you think, Tony?" Having just spent a week on the Big Gay Boat, I've seen the full range of ages and age-interaction from 20-somethings to (literally) 80-somethings. I'm smack-dab in the middle. And—honest to God—pretty happy about it.

    Like you, I started having sex with older men when I was young. (Younger than you.) And like you, rather than feeling abused or taken advantage of, I felt mentored. I've always enjoyed playing with older guys, even as I'm becoming one. I went through invisibility to "Daddy" and the early discomfort with that moniker. I've grown into it.

    Like you and Vancouver Steve, age is not really an issue with me—in that I don't seek out a certain age or pretend to be an age I am not. Comfort in one's own skin is attractive at any age. I think Steve was on the money when he said "I believe that if we treat people with respect and do not take advantage of vulnerabilities, I will never be that dirty old man." Words to live (and grow old) by.

    It's not these free-for-all days or super-sensitivity that's got you thinking this way. It's just your birthday. Relax. (Some of us are older than your forty-seven. I'm sorry 55-guy went astray with his unfortunate "unable" invective. He made a couple of good points about encouragement and sharing.) You'll never be creepy, Rob. Or a dirty old man. It's not in your nature—at any age. The other "F-word" may hit hard (in concept) but you'll be fine on the other side. You can trust me on this one, kid.

    But don't stop trimming the nose and ear hair. And put that nappy sweater away.

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  11. I'm gonna be honest, when I first started my online profiles I put the "no one ever X" line in the little about me box but I mad that range pretty wide because I knew there was there were lots of great men out there to connect with. I put did it in reaction to a negative experience I had in an Adult Bookstore at about the same time.

    Now that I've turned 30 and have been out here, I've found that older men are alot more apt to be open to having a range of experience.

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  12. I was born a daddy.
    At 15 The first guy I had sex with thought I was older. I just thought he was a hard cock.
    When I moved away from home, to go to art school. I can remember a buddy of mine saying that it is a sign or security to date/have sex with people your own age. For some reason I thought he might be on to something. So thats what I did.
    However as I am now 46 that pool is getting slimmer. I have had a few dates with guys who are, yes young enough to be my sons. (I'm from Utah so that starts at around age 34). It has been an interesting journey. I can remember waking up next to a very hot smooth tight man/boy to catch him playing a video game on his phone in bed. Now in all my wisdom. For me its not about the age, but what I find sexy sometimes its tight and smooth and sometimes its the mall santa claus. Age is just a number. You aren't old until you have no urge or boner left in you. Maybe that is just the "daddy" mentality and I have mentally grown into the body I have had all along. BTW I have seen you BBRT profile and I would do you nose hairs and pilly sweater and all.

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  13. Hello from Belgium, Rob.

    First of all, thank you for sharing your thoughts and reminiscences with the world. They've tantalised me, made me think, and above all, warmed my heart.

    As one might suspect, as a female I have little useful insights regarding this entry's topic, but I would like to say that I don't believe this is an exclusively gay phenomenon.
    I'm 33 and had been going through a Daddy phase since--well, ever since I became sexually active, really, until about a year or so ago. Nowadays, I'm just starting to notice the younger ones, and when I'm attracted to someone who's substantially older, it's because of who they are, not because they might make a good Daddy.

    Of course that doesn't mean that I believe that most young men--or women--with a Daddy itch are all looking for them as means to an end, I just know (in retrospect) that I was for a time, and suspect I'm not the only one.

    But are older men who lust for younger men dirty uncles? Most certainly not, as long as they treat their toy boys as subjects instead of objects. I haven't read all of your blog, but nowhere do I get the impression that you do this, unless they ask for it. ;)

    Kind regards,
    An.

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  14. RedPhillip,

    There are a lot of creepy/needy guys of all ages. When we are younger and run across the first few of them, chances are pretty good that they're going to be older than ourselves . . . and that puts some of the nails into the coffin of the creepy older guy stereotype.

    Let's keep an eye on each other for when we start resorting to Hair Club for Men and flashy wads of cash to attract the younger crowd. Or if we start putting an eternal '39' on our online profiles. Deal?

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  15. Jayson,

    College towns do tend to be the epicenters of the student/older man relationships. God knows that when I was in school and getting screwed by all the professors, I was making some older men very happy.

    Like you, I believe that keeping an open mind and open sails to the changing winds will take us in unexpected and often breathtaking directions. Here's wishing for sunny skies and smooth sailing for us both.

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  16. Anonymous,

    I appreciate you taking the time to type out an apology. Thank you.

    I hope you understand, however, that I took your comments personally because you aimed them at me—personally. You didn't address them to other bloggers. You said, "You seem unable to slow down and spend time with a FEW guys," and then went on to describe your encounters as 'quality,' while mine were merely 'quantity.' (The emphasis is mine.)

    That's very personally addressed, and what you said is wrong, and yes, hurtful.

    I'm also concerned that in your follow-up, you continue to slam the other bloggers. Your original comment allegedly took a stance of "not bad, just different." But when you drag in qualifiers like the false dichotomy of quality vs. quantity, you're clearly saying which side you think is better. And when you call guys who enjoy anonymous sex with multiple partners 'sociopaths,' you're pretty clearly saying they're not just different from you, but that they're damnably bad.

    If that's your belief, fine. Own it. But frankly, I don't understand why it's necessary to slander other men like that. For how many decades and centuries have we all, as a community, had to endure being called sociopaths, sinners, mentally ill, and worse by the heterosexual community merely because of our sexual feelings and practices?

    So why should we do it within our own community? Why do we have to be divisive? Dividing gay men into goodies and baddies isn't productive. It might make you feel better not to be one of the so-called bad apples, but what purpose does that serve? How many sexual encounters more does it take between what you have in a month, and what one of those other bloggers might have before they move out of the realm of what you deem quality sex and into sociopathology? Ten? Five? One?

    And who gets to make that decision and assert the control over other men's sexual lives? Is it really your decision? The View's? The government's? If everyone involved is having fun and no one's getting hurt, what fucking business is it if someone has thirty encounters in a month? Is it honestly affecting your life in any way?

    Again, I'm aware I sound hostile, but dude—if you're offended by and can't relate to the other blogs and the promiscuity of the bloggers behind them, drop them from your RSS feeds. Seriously.

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  17. Throb,

    D'oh! I cannot believe I didn't associate my current state of mind with my birthday last week. It was really such a non-event that I failed to connect the two.

    Thanks for the reassurance that I'll never be creepy. I'm coming to you for a money-back guarantee if that turns out to be untrue, however. I am still going to giggle internally when guys call me Daddy. Even if I am one.

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  18. Blackwatch,

    I get that our views about acceptable ages changes as we ourselves grow older (and hopefully wiser). I'm glad you've changed your mind!

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  19. Gingerbeard,

    I hasten to assure you that I do trim my nose hairs. And don't own a pilly sweater. That I wear outside the house, anyway.

    I think you're wise to be open to all kinds of ages; I think that's the biggest sign of self-security of all.

    I've always been curious about the phenomenon of younger guys exerting a lot of peer pressure on each other not to date older men—and then secretly do it anyway. There's a lot of that out there.

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  20. An,

    It's nice to hear from one of my several female readers.

    You're too modest about the quality of your insights. You've got your finger right on the nub of the matter when you point out that the big difference lies in treating people as individuals and not as tight, smooth-skinned young objects.

    Even if some of them do ask to be treated that way, I think I still do it from a playful perspective of helping them achieve a fantasy—and what can be more personal and intimate than that?

    Thanks again!

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  21. Its funny. Anonymous men at the gloryholes are fine. The ones I never trust are the "Anonymous" one on the Internet blog comments, personally. lol

    As for the age thing - I think that guys are either creepy or they aren't. I mean, they come in all age groups (creepy, that is).

    Think of how creepy became the parade through Jeffry Dahmer's apt. (to name an extreme). And not much age-age or age-differences there.

    I also think its mythology that an older man always has something to offer a younger man (mentor-wise). Its certainly possible. But the same can be true between any two guys of any ages where there is some wisdom and commonality.

    And the whole "mentoring" line can be just that. I mean, it does usually require the young man pull his undershorts down. To "learn" the ways of international banking?

    Okay. lol

    I think one must go with the chemistry and the attractions which exist regardless of age. If its a daddy thing, I do think the psychology of males is impacted fundamentally by their paternal influence/s.

    But then, how do men of a certain age explain their son thing? How does a man of 60 explain his penchant for having 18 yr olds in his bed? Is he channeling his own inner-daddy? Or is he just really into smooth, little butts and big, hung, sparcely-pubed dicks?

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  22. Mr. GHJ,

    Yeah, you and I have both had some issues with the anonymous commenters in the past, haven't we?

    And the whole "mentoring" line can be just that. I mean, it does usually require the young man pull his undershorts down. To "learn" the ways of international banking?

    This is so full of wisdom and goodness. This is why I tell people to read your blog. Mr. GHJ is a modern-day Cassandra, people!

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  23. I don't think it's age that makes a guy become a creeper. I think there are creepy guys, and as they get older they acquire the resources to offer money/favors and become the creepy 'drunk uncle' types.

    The creepiest guy I ever had sex with was in his very early forties. I went over to his house, we played around, and afterwards he mentioned that his computer was acting up. I did tech support (I was in college at the time), so I offered to take a look. His computer was down in his basement, so we went down there and I got to work. He said he was going to put a DVD on 'for some background noise'. He then spend 15 minutes struggling with his TV/DVD setup, to find just the right scene - the 'It puts the lotion in the basket' scene from Silence of the Lambs! The amount of effort he put into A) getting his A/V working and B) finding the scene left no doubt that he really, really wanted this scene, and only this scene, playing while I was in his basement. Obviously, I never saw him again. In fact, it creeped me out so badly that I swore off guys for nearly a year! The worst part was that he had driven me to his house (which was far away from my college), so I had to get a long, awkward ride back home from him.

    In short, I doubt that guy suddenly turned creepy when he hit the big four-oh. I think he was creepy down to the bone from the get-go, and age simply moved him from the 'weird' category to 'creepy'. I've had sex with guys much older than him since then who were absolute zeroes on the creepy meter.

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  24. I'm sure there is some pithy comment I'm suppose to make at this point since I'm older than you, but I'm too busy fucking men of every age to think of it...

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  25. Anonymous #2,

    That guy was CREEPY. Holy shit. I hope you left before he even FOUND that scene. Christ.

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  26. You know, I could never think of you as 'that guy.' You've written too much, been to open and accepting. I think 'that guy' - to echo others here - started out as unaccepting of himself... and if you can accept who you are, you can never really accept others, can you?

    Not only are you incredibly sexy, you're very generous of spirit. Love that about you.

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  27. FelchingPisser,

    Yeah, but you're a fuckgod.

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  28. Richard,

    You're sweet. And I like your generosity of spirit. Thank you.

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  29. When I was 23 I had a relationship with an older man. I was still closeted and had only one previous homosexual experience, so for me the relationship was about exploring my sexuality, hanging out with someone who knew I was gay and, most importantly at the time, having sex.

    I didn't set out to ensnare a "Daddy", it just happened that the guy I was into fit into that sub-group.

    The relationship didn't end well though. Over time the dymanic shifted so that when we had sex I was just an object to facilitate his gratification. I became somewhat of a trophy, a trinket that he paraded in front of his friends to show them that he was still a virile stud. He saw me more as a posession than an equal.

    At the time I used to work in a public place, so he would watch me, and the other young men I worked with, from afar, which I did find quite creepy.

    I now realise his actions may have been a result of his need to prove he was sexually desireable, and such insecurities can plague a man at any age.

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  30. HH,

    I think your insights are correct. It's nice to feel, at any age, that one is sexually desirable.

    Relationships change over time; something that starts off with a lot of mutual desire and attraction slowly evolves as the partners invest (or don't) in the other. It's a shame that in this case you became objectified. I'm willing to bet, though, that in relationships after that, you resisted the same mistakes.

    Thanks, Anonymous.

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  31. I don't believe age is nearly as important as appearance. A nicely groomed man of forty is much more appealing than the opposite twenty year old. Personally, I find a twenty year age difference to be the most I am confortable with. I don't believe most young guys go thru a Daddy phrase, but many may find the security older men offer to be attractive. I'm not talking financial but more of a worldly nature. To me, older/creepy applies when you allow yourself to become physically unfit, sloppy in appearence, and show a lack of respect and sensitivity to others. I think we all should be a bit sensitive in order to never become that creepy character.

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  32. Rob:

    I wish you would show this forum to a gay therapist after a little time heals the wounds. You might benefit from a chance to reconsider where you have achieved objectivity and where you are possibly -- note I said possibly, and no more -- reasoning defensively and otherwise speciously. I am concerned that your gift for influencing others has compromised objectivity -- that you are encouraging groupthink in order to avoid confronting seriously-repressed issues.

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  33. Anonymous #3,

    I don't know. I kind of like scruffy little sloppy guys sometimes. As long as they're clean beneath the second-hand clothing.

    Grooming is always a big thing with me as well, though. I don't ask that guys look like they've stepped out of a Town and Country ad, but soap and water goes a long way.

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  34. Anonymous #1,

    To accuse me of specious reasoning and of needing therapy (!) because I gave you what-for after your insulting choice of words this morning, and your inability to accept others for their own adult choices, is fucking crazy. That therapist would say it's projection--look it up!--because you're unable to accept your own specious reasoning. And boy, is it ever specious.

    Dude, get it together. You were rude. You tried to cover it up. You were ruder. When I called you out on it, you were ruder still. Give it up already.

    I've signed no contract to be nice, in this journal. It's my forum. If you or anyone comes at me to say that I'm 'unable' to have a relationship, or use the anonymous commenting system to be obnoxious, I'm not going to be nice. Hell yes, I'm going to defend myself.

    What you don't like is having your every flimsy argument stomped into the ground. It wouldn't happen if you'd keep your comments to yourself. So please. Feel free to drop me from your RSS feed as well.

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  35. I see those...I'm old and fat, but looking for someone young and hot ONLY...ads and I think to myself WTF...how's that working out? I'm not saying that people can't be attracted to ages different from their own or different body types...but it just comes off as somehow strange to me. Maybe it's because they're very common, and I very, very rarely see ads the other way around...quite the contrary.

    I've also thought of the 30s being that tween time of not young enough and not old enough. But for most my 30s it wasn't really relevant as I wasn't looking. Megan (who was 8 years younger) was enough, and after that exploded, no one at all was even better.

    In my 20s, I thought guys in their 20s were more fun (more of a generational familiarity and zest for doing the most stupid things) but that men in their 30s were more sexy (because they were manly).

    Now I think younger guys (not "bois"...but young men) are sexier, but I still relate better (in a generational way) to guys my age, even if I also think that they can sometimes be more boring and rigid than younger guys.

    The majority of men I've been with in the past couple years have been between 21 and 31. MB (I love it that I don't even know his name) is the 31 y/o...what an old geezer :-)

    My thing is that I do NOT want to be some kid's daddy. I'm not going to teach or mentor anyone anything. Also, I don't have a dad personality. I'm psychologically mature but socially immature. I still have a zest for doing stupid things...know all of the newest "it" spots and "it" things...stay up all night...and have a foggy time remembering to do the things expected of someone "my age".

    And actually a good evening for me is chilling with someone, smoking some weed, playing video games or watching animation, and jumping all over each other. It's genuine on my part...not bait for younger guys...and that's just it...guys my age are more likely beyond that. I've also noticed that most M/F swinging couples are in their 30s...and that's the new frontier for me.

    I have to admit though that noticing more gray hairs on my chest and the budding crows feet makes me a bit self-conscious. As a result I'm turing into a full blown metrosexual. And what's with that "dress your age" thing that we are fed? I'm too much of a peacock to go all Docker's business casual like those I work with. I work for a HUGE corporation, and my coworkers probably think I have MPD. One day I'm in full blown hipster mode and coming back from a lost weekend, and the next day I'm dressed in the suavest suit that won't make the cover of Details or GQ for a couple months and I'm in charge of the world...hmm, is the latter the budding dad in me?

    Seph

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  36. Rob

    I have never actively sought out someone younger or older although my natural gravitation seemed to always point northward. The downside of hooking up is that the chance of landing a creeper increases the more the roulette wheel spins. I have had creepy encounters both young and old and I chalk those experiences up to just mis-reading the clues or guys totally misrepresenting themselves. But for the most part. They were earnest in their desire, there was just something unappealing in the way they went about it that didn't click with me. And hey we are the same age -- just hitting our stride man!

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  37. Hey Anonymous

    Dude, you are down a rat hole -- stop before someone closes the sewer lid on you. Rob has never discouraged well informed disagreement but your personalization is well . . . Creepy.

    Move on.

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  38. Seph,

    Where are all the hip places, and what are all the it things of the moment? Your fans want to know.

    I liked and really could agree with your personal experiences up to a point—and I think that point is finding younger guys sexier. I think mentally I still find older gentlemen sexier in general. The younger guys to me are just adorable. Adorable in a stuffed Pikachu doll kind of way. Except I don't want to stick my dick into Pikachu.

    I don't know what this dress your age thing is. In my hoodie and Chuck Taylors I look like a emo 15-year-old.

    I loved reading your insights in your comment. Thank you.

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  39. I guess I've never got over my 'daddy' phase...I met my partner when I was 22, and he was 40. Now, 30 years later, although we are still together, and it's not a platonic partnership, my 2 most regular partners are 64 and 52 in my life. I've never been as comfortable with the younger set showing an interest in me, so I'm happy to stick with 'older' men, for now.

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  40. Loki,

    Indeed, we are just hitting our stride. I like that attitude.

    When it comes to creepy guys, you're right—it's not the things they necessarily want, most of the time, but the way they go about trying to get it. It's apparent that many of the guys simply haven't been socialized that well.

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  41. Oh, and Loki,

    Thanks for sticking up for me, but I deleted Anonymous #1's last comment.

    Spectacular as it was to watch him deteriorate from polite, though unstable, reasoning into outright frothing at the mouth and derogatory insults, I'm not obligated to give the obviously mentally ill a forum. Kind of makes you pity those kids he's allegedly mentoring, doesn't it?

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  42. Art,

    It's great that you've been in a relationship for 30 years. Many congratulations on that! I'm sure your older partners are proud to have you in their arms.

    I can understand being uncomfortable by a younger guy's attention. It's easy to wonder about their motivations, and let the mind travel to worst-case scenarios. In the end, we like what we like, and there's not much we can do to change that, right?

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  43. @anonymous (10:51 PM)

    I hope you realise just how assuming you are to imply that all of this blog's readers are incapable of coming to a well thought out conclusion on their own, instead of falling into the group think trap. Are we all puppets to you? Seriously?

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  44. When I was 19, just about to enter my sophomore year in college, I met a guy named Joel, who was 36. I didn't know how old he was when we locked eyes in a department store; I just knew he was handsome and hot. I definitely wasn't looking for a daddy type, as everyone I had dated during my freshman year was college-age. But we hit it off really well, and had an amazing relationship for two years.

    Before Joel, two guys tried to fuck me, but weren't patient enough to ensure that I enjoyed it too, and after a few thrusts, I had to quit. Joel showed me how to enjoy getting fucked, and while he fucked me about three times for every time I got to fuck him, I learned hot to be a good top, as well as a good bottom. Despite the age difference, we clicked really well, and not just in bed.

    Now I'm 47, and I've had a (bottom) partner for almost 13 years. I love fucking him, but to be honest, I love getting fucked more. When I was in my 30s, I seemed to hook up only with guys who were also in their 30s. Now that I'm in my 40s, I hook up regularly with soldiers and college guys, as well as ages up to (and above) my own. I never thought about it, but your observations are spot-on.

    I still look back on my relationship with Joel with great fondness. I think that because of him, I'm better able to handle guys who are less than half my age. And some of them can really fuck!

    Jonathan in Israel (originally from Boston)

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  45. An,

    Thanks for standing up for me. My groupthink-mind-control-fu has totally taken you into my evil control. Now, bring me some pizza.

    On a more serious note, trying to use reason with this particular person is a losing battle. Disagreeing with him or pointing out his logical flaws only causes him to lose his marbles.

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  46. Jonathan,

    Joel was lucky to have you for those two years, as you were lucky to have him.

    Experience is a good thing in a partner when you're inexperienced yourself. Sometimes that experience comes in the form of an older guy, as it did with Joel. It doesn't have to, of course—as you're finding out with your younger tops!

    I'm glad you joined in.

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  47. I'm a closeted gay man who just turned 35. I have a very slight build and (previously!) boyish face, and have always been able to "pass" for much, much younger.

    I have a job where, unfortunately, my employment would be at risk if I was discovered as gay, so I have chosen to remain in the closet.

    Part of my "defense strategy" was always to list my age as 6-7 years younger than I am. I didn't do this to snare younger guys, but to throw the scent off of someone who might recognize me.

    Having said that, I am actually one of those guys who has never really been attracted to older men. I've heard from plenty of guys that I should branch out, don't know what I'm missing, would appreciate the "experience" etc. I just politely say that It's An Attraction Thing. Yeah, I like smooth butts and scant pubes. Yeah, if I could fuck 15 year old boys all the time, I would. But not being attracted to a particular group (whether it's race, age, clothing style) isn't something that I can turn on/off. I'm not rude or hateful about it.

    I use the example that I'm not attracted to women. I think Halle Berry is sexy as hell. I just don't want to fuck her.

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  48. Anonymous #4,

    It's like I said above—we like what we like, and there's not really much we can do about it than keep an open mind. Most important is what we aren't rude or hateful about it, as you mention. It's then that a preference turns into something ugly.

    You know what would really throw people off your scent, though? If you listed your age as 6-7 years older than yourself. Why is it that guys never do that?

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  49. Emo huh? It's probably the floppy hair. Do you toss your head to the side to get the hair out of your eyes? I have some dark green nail polish you can borrow ;-)

    Which reminds me, one night a friend of mine came over before going out. He took one look at how I was dressed and said, "So how are we going to get there...your skateboard?" Aren't friends sweet...so I responded, "No, I thought we'd take your flying crocheted afghan...that is if there's room on it for us along with your back hump and lap poodle."

    No...no Picahu for me...no twinkies, toys, or bois. I guess the ones who are more sporty...although geeky works too. A sporty geek would probably give me a stroke. The best are the boy-men with the full beards...especially bike couriers...with their Dickies/Carharts rolled up, U lock in their back pocket, bag slung over their shoulder, and all unkempt and wild looking on their fixies...oh shit...I have to sign off now...

    Seph

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  50. Dear Mr Steed, as regards your proposed bargain (way up) above, deal.

    That you were forced to delete Anon #1's final comment makes me really curious to know what it was. Rather like the curiosity that provokes poking a boil - it's rarely an edifying experience.

    I would happily submit to your mind-control wu shu, were I not the cantankerous geezer that I am, too enamored of lurking around video arcades hoping for new mentoring opportunities.

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  51. When I was 14 I lusted after 44-year-olds. Now that I'm 44, I'm lusting after 64-year-olds. The whiter the hair and deeper the wrinkles, the more turned on I am. Would I feel self-conscious taking a 20-something on a dinner date? No, because it would never happen. Me taking a 60 or 70 year old on a dinner date? I would be very proud.

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  52. ...I'm back...a new 22 y/o 4 blocks away. All my 46 y/o friend going on 80 y/o woman would derisively say about this is...oink. But come on...we agreed to a repeat...and I noticed he had an xbox. It's not even as if I answered his ad for being 22...it was the uncut Mexican within walking distance thing that did it...why he was interested in me is his business.

    So, you know of my proclivities for following. I really think that someone could construe that as creepsterism. I'm hoping that it isn't. Some of the time it's consensual, and the others it's brief and never with that one again.

    Seph

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  53. Hey Rob,

    Does it sound terrible if I said that I like older guys because they're easy, and simply better in bed? Also I find them more relatable than most people my age.

    On the other hand, the love of my life was someone who's two years younger than I am, and inspired me more than any older guys I know.(ok, I like him because he's basically a genius,amazing in bed, and appreciates soul music.) :)

    My point is it really doesn't matter how old you are, but what you have up there,and down there.

    William, just an average guy in his early 20's.

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  54. Great piece peppered with insightful comments (give or take a few *ahem, Anonymous!!*)

    I'm in my mid-twenties and have never been hung up on age. If I hit it off with someone, then the initial infatuation will usually provide enough force to propel things into the bedroom (and, potentially into some sort of a further intimate and/or romantic relationship). Generally, I'm drawn to people who know who they are and are comfortable with themselves. I find people like that funny, sexy and (G-d willing) naked in my bed.

    I have many friends who are into older guys, all for very different reasons. But for every friend who rides the daddy train, there is one exclusively meddling in young'ns. So I can't justify a credible "daddy" trend.

    As for older men who enjoy an army of twinks (I say that ironically, since you could argue I am one myself), let them! Intimacy doesn't come with demographic questionnaires or quantity restrictions.

    On a semi-related note, I don't consider sugar-daddy arrangements, which have received their share of negative attention in the comments, creepy. If it's an informed, consented arrangement where both parties understand, and fully agree on, the terms, then why not? Those relationships are symbiotic and the reasons behind them often complex. It's easy, but hardly empathetic, to dismiss them as "creepy".

    As an aside, this is my first time posting, but I've enjoyed your blog for a few months now. It's finger-lickin' good..

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  55. 44-year-old Anonymous (you guys need to use some nicknames!),

    Well put. Succinct, sweet, and to the point. Thank you for giving me a warm glow.

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  56. William,

    Your comment seems almost the inverse of Benjamin Franklin's advice to a young man on the advantages of wooing an older woman: "Lastly, they are so grateful!"

    You've got it right about there you need to have it, and what you need to have. Good on you.

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  57. First-time posting Anonymous,

    I think a lot of people find sugar-daddy relationships unsettling--or creepy, more extremely--because relationships based on mutual attraction alone are more palatable. Sex alone is difficult enough to discuss; sex based on an economic exchange, even more so.

    It happens, though. God knows I was on the receiving end of that kind of attention in my youth. Even in those situations, with many if not most of those men I saw on a regular basis, however, I had a lot of good times and mutual feelings of affection that were not feigned for the sake of the payoff.

    I can see in my first comment that by not directly addressing sex-for-money exchanges that Lucky mentioned, that I might have been implying the payoff relationship was what I found off-putting. What I meant was when men have an ulterior motive other than attraction as their primary reason for chasing after nothing but young tail—a motive like validation or the competitive urge to one-up his peers by appearing with a boy on his arm—that's the kind of behavior that'll make me cringe a little.

    At the same time, nothing I feel really matters. If an arrangement is working for the couple in questions, that's all that matters. Every relationship has its own story. Just because it's not mine doesn't mean a damned thing.

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  58. RedPhillip,

    Let's hang around the arcade together. You can hold the chloroform.

    I'd tell you that you missed a meltdown that made the Wicked Witch's dousing look like a harmless little April Fool's prank, but I don't want to oversell it. It was a pretty spectacular display of bile and rage, though.

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  59. Rob,

    Was Franklin for real?? That's Hilarious!!!

    This one is my favorite:
    "Because in every Animal that walks upright, the Deficiency of the Fluids that fill the Muscles appears first in the highest Part. The Face first grows lank and Wrinkled; then the Neck; then the Breast and Arms; the lower parts continuing to the last as plump as ever; so that covering all above with a Basket, and regarding only what is below the Girdle, it is impossible of two Women to know an old one from a young one. And as in the Dark all Cats are grey..."

    WOW, Wow...that's all I'm going to say. :D

    William

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  60. William,

    Hilarious quote. That is definitely a 'wow'.

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  61. "There’s something about a man of moderate good looks in his forties that has proven to be irresistible to a lot of guys in their late teens and early twenties. I honestly can’t explain it. One of my favorite young correspondents recently commented that he was in a ‘daddy phase’—and maybe that’s simply what it is. I’m not going to question the phenomenon. I’m just going to revel in it."

    I was originally going to say something about how you don't need to explain it, but just except "OUR" interest. But then I remembered I'm 35. Yeesh...

    But when I was in my teens and early 20s, I totally had the yin for older men mostly because guys my age were so immature. I preferred the company of older men because they were the only guys I could talk to. So maybe that's a very particular (in my case) explanation, but meh.

    However, you give me reason to look forward to my 40s. Maybe by then I will have gotten out of here, and will start experiencing the same thing. :)

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  62. Such a great topic! I was like a number of other posters: having the hots for (being drawn to) guys older than me. While that has continued, I have become more open to all men. Hopefully, that's the 'wiser' thing: there are attractive things to see in just about anyone, if you are open to seeing it.
    I've also noted that many (most?) of the 30-somethings seem to be paired off, so not so much available. Which could mean invisibility was meant more as 'not available'. Although, skipping an introduction due to that is simply bad manners.
    As for your powers of suasion, unless applied in person, directly, and hopefully, naked, I'm just going to discount them.
    JPinPDX

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